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	<title>Comments on: “Why&#8217;s this so good?&#8221; No. 16: David Foster Wallace on the vagaries of cruising</title>
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	<link>http://www.niemanstoryboard.org/2011/10/18/whys-this-so-good-no-16-david-foster-wallace-megan-garber-shipping-out/</link>
	<description>Breaking down story in every medium. A project of the Nieman Foundation for Journalism at Harvard.</description>
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		<title>By: Nieman Storyboard&#8217;s top 10 posts for 2011 &#8211; Nieman Storyboard - A project of the Nieman Foundation for Journalism at Harvard</title>
		<link>http://www.niemanstoryboard.org/2011/10/18/whys-this-so-good-no-16-david-foster-wallace-megan-garber-shipping-out/comment-page-1/#comment-13398</link>
		<dc:creator>Nieman Storyboard&#8217;s top 10 posts for 2011 &#8211; Nieman Storyboard - A project of the Nieman Foundation for Journalism at Harvard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Dec 2011 16:12:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.niemanstoryboard.org/?p=12235#comment-13398</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] “David Foster Wallace on the vagaries of cruising.” [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] “David Foster Wallace on the vagaries of cruising.” [...]</p>
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		<title>By: I’ve got your missing links right here (22 October 2011) &#124; Not Exactly Rocket Science &#124; My Blog</title>
		<link>http://www.niemanstoryboard.org/2011/10/18/whys-this-so-good-no-16-david-foster-wallace-megan-garber-shipping-out/comment-page-1/#comment-12268</link>
		<dc:creator>I’ve got your missing links right here (22 October 2011) &#124; Not Exactly Rocket Science &#124; My Blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Oct 2011 05:07:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.niemanstoryboard.org/?p=12235#comment-12268</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Megan Garber on why David Foster Wallace’s piece on cruise ships is so good. Garber is great herself; I think Wallace would approve. [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Megan Garber on why David Foster Wallace’s piece on cruise ships is so good. Garber is great herself; I think Wallace would approve. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: I’ve got your missing links right here (22 October 2011) &#124; Not Exactly Rocket Science &#124; Appenheimer</title>
		<link>http://www.niemanstoryboard.org/2011/10/18/whys-this-so-good-no-16-david-foster-wallace-megan-garber-shipping-out/comment-page-1/#comment-12205</link>
		<dc:creator>I’ve got your missing links right here (22 October 2011) &#124; Not Exactly Rocket Science &#124; Appenheimer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Oct 2011 21:16:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.niemanstoryboard.org/?p=12235#comment-12205</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Megan Garber on why David Foster Wallace’s piece on cruise ships is so good. Garber is great herself; I think Wallace would approve. [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Megan Garber on why David Foster Wallace’s piece on cruise ships is so good. Garber is great herself; I think Wallace would approve. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: pinboard October 20, 2011 &#8212; arghh.net</title>
		<link>http://www.niemanstoryboard.org/2011/10/18/whys-this-so-good-no-16-david-foster-wallace-megan-garber-shipping-out/comment-page-1/#comment-12177</link>
		<dc:creator>pinboard October 20, 2011 &#8212; arghh.net</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Oct 2011 17:33:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.niemanstoryboard.org/?p=12235#comment-12177</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] whys-this-so-good-no-16-david-foster-wallace-megan-garber-shipping-out On David Foster Wallace and cruise ships &#8211; http://t.co/1tGaN4eh /via @longreads [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] whys-this-so-good-no-16-david-foster-wallace-megan-garber-shipping-out On David Foster Wallace and cruise ships &#8211; <a href="http://t.co/1tGaN4eh" rel="nofollow">http://t.co/1tGaN4eh</a> /via @longreads [...]</p>
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		<title>By: quotes out of context &#124; clusterflock</title>
		<link>http://www.niemanstoryboard.org/2011/10/18/whys-this-so-good-no-16-david-foster-wallace-megan-garber-shipping-out/comment-page-1/#comment-12160</link>
		<dc:creator>quotes out of context &#124; clusterflock</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Oct 2011 13:27:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.niemanstoryboard.org/?p=12235#comment-12160</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] But, as the Los Angeles Times and others have noted, Shine sounds an awful lot like Chime. There’s something about a mass-market Luxury Cruise that’s unbearably sad. &#8220;I feel like I&#8217;m wearing a bee beard over here,&#8221; he says. &#8220;It [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] But, as the Los Angeles Times and others have noted, Shine sounds an awful lot like Chime. There’s something about a mass-market Luxury Cruise that’s unbearably sad. &#8220;I feel like I&#8217;m wearing a bee beard over here,&#8221; he says. &#8220;It [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Andrea Pitzer</title>
		<link>http://www.niemanstoryboard.org/2011/10/18/whys-this-so-good-no-16-david-foster-wallace-megan-garber-shipping-out/comment-page-1/#comment-12148</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrea Pitzer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Oct 2011 19:02:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.niemanstoryboard.org/?p=12235#comment-12148</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I hadn&#039;t seen the Boston Phoenix interview with Wallace himself before today. The concept of embellishing, or of “putting in some ‘likes’&quot; is, to me, deeply flawed. Despite his comment about what editors should expect from fiction writers when it comes to nonfiction, I believe that no one gets a pass. 

Unfortunately, as Megan notes, it’s not completely clear what Wallace did or didn’t do in this particular piece. As such, it seems to me that there are still things to learn from Wallace&#039;s approach to structuring “Shipping Out,” which Megan addresses so eloquently here. 

And for those of us still alive and writing, I think it&#039;s vital that we get it down accurately and tell it true. You don&#039;t get to plump your quotes. You don&#039;t get to embellish. As soon as you do, it might still be a highly-entertaining story, but it&#039;s not nonfiction, and it&#039;s not journalism.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I hadn&#8217;t seen the Boston Phoenix interview with Wallace himself before today. The concept of embellishing, or of “putting in some ‘likes’&#8221; is, to me, deeply flawed. Despite his comment about what editors should expect from fiction writers when it comes to nonfiction, I believe that no one gets a pass. </p>
<p>Unfortunately, as Megan notes, it’s not completely clear what Wallace did or didn’t do in this particular piece. As such, it seems to me that there are still things to learn from Wallace&#8217;s approach to structuring “Shipping Out,” which Megan addresses so eloquently here. </p>
<p>And for those of us still alive and writing, I think it&#8217;s vital that we get it down accurately and tell it true. You don&#8217;t get to plump your quotes. You don&#8217;t get to embellish. As soon as you do, it might still be a highly-entertaining story, but it&#8217;s not nonfiction, and it&#8217;s not journalism.</p>
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		<title>By: Megan Garber</title>
		<link>http://www.niemanstoryboard.org/2011/10/18/whys-this-so-good-no-16-david-foster-wallace-megan-garber-shipping-out/comment-page-1/#comment-12147</link>
		<dc:creator>Megan Garber</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Oct 2011 18:29:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.niemanstoryboard.org/?p=12235#comment-12147</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[An important point — thanks to you both for bringing it up. The short answer, as far as I&#039;m concerned, is: Yes, it would change things. It would make the piece no less beautiful, but it would make it considerably less journalistic. 

What&#039;s difficult here, though, is how vague Franzen is in his assertion. Ordinarily, of course, &quot;those things didn&#039;t actually happen&quot; would be a huge, horrible, wholesale blow to a work of nonfiction. In his conversation with Remnick, though, it&#039;s unclear what kind of accusation Franzen&#039;s actually making. He&#039;s being coy; &quot;didn&#039;t actually happen,&quot; weirdly, could mean any number of things in this context. (Alterman&#039;s assessment — that Franzen &quot;told Remnick that Wallace felt free to make stuff up for his non-fiction&quot; — strikes me as not fully fair as a standalone summary of the exchange. The conversation, as I read it, was a lot more garbled and hedge-y than that.)

Not that there isn&#039;t reason for skepticism. As The Awl&#039;s piece points out (per a 1998 DFW interview with Tom Scocca), Wallace admitted to re-writing dialogue &quot;so it sounds more out-loud, which I think means putting in some &#039;likes&#039; or taking out some punctuation that the person might originally have said.&quot; Which is either skirting the line or crossing it, as you prefer. But in another conversation, about another essay, Wallace insists that &quot;Nothin’, nothin’ in there is made up.&quot; Which would indicate both appreciation of journalistic principles and indignation at the suggestion that he&#039;s violated them. 

So it&#039;s a murky thing, all in all, and pretty much a he-said/she-said at this point (with one of the participants, of course, no longer able to speak for himself). Based on the information we have at the moment, though, I&#039;m inclined to take &quot;Shipping Out&quot; at its word: that it is a work of nonfiction, and thus a work of journalism. And a remarkable one, at that.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>An important point — thanks to you both for bringing it up. The short answer, as far as I&#8217;m concerned, is: Yes, it would change things. It would make the piece no less beautiful, but it would make it considerably less journalistic. </p>
<p>What&#8217;s difficult here, though, is how vague Franzen is in his assertion. Ordinarily, of course, &#8220;those things didn&#8217;t actually happen&#8221; would be a huge, horrible, wholesale blow to a work of nonfiction. In his conversation with Remnick, though, it&#8217;s unclear what kind of accusation Franzen&#8217;s actually making. He&#8217;s being coy; &#8220;didn&#8217;t actually happen,&#8221; weirdly, could mean any number of things in this context. (Alterman&#8217;s assessment — that Franzen &#8220;told Remnick that Wallace felt free to make stuff up for his non-fiction&#8221; — strikes me as not fully fair as a standalone summary of the exchange. The conversation, as I read it, was a lot more garbled and hedge-y than that.)</p>
<p>Not that there isn&#8217;t reason for skepticism. As The Awl&#8217;s piece points out (per a 1998 DFW interview with Tom Scocca), Wallace admitted to re-writing dialogue &#8220;so it sounds more out-loud, which I think means putting in some &#8216;likes&#8217; or taking out some punctuation that the person might originally have said.&#8221; Which is either skirting the line or crossing it, as you prefer. But in another conversation, about another essay, Wallace insists that &#8220;Nothin’, nothin’ in there is made up.&#8221; Which would indicate both appreciation of journalistic principles and indignation at the suggestion that he&#8217;s violated them. </p>
<p>So it&#8217;s a murky thing, all in all, and pretty much a he-said/she-said at this point (with one of the participants, of course, no longer able to speak for himself). Based on the information we have at the moment, though, I&#8217;m inclined to take &#8220;Shipping Out&#8221; at its word: that it is a work of nonfiction, and thus a work of journalism. And a remarkable one, at that.</p>
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		<title>By: emkay</title>
		<link>http://www.niemanstoryboard.org/2011/10/18/whys-this-so-good-no-16-david-foster-wallace-megan-garber-shipping-out/comment-page-1/#comment-12146</link>
		<dc:creator>emkay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Oct 2011 15:59:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.niemanstoryboard.org/?p=12235#comment-12146</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Megan-

Does Jonathan Franzen&#039;s assertion that some amount of the cruise story was invented(http://arts.nationalpost.com/2011/10/10/jonathan-franzen-dishes-on-david-foster-wallace/) change your view of the piece?  It is still wonderfully written, and probably an accurate summation of his experience, but what if it was not all true?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Megan-</p>
<p>Does Jonathan Franzen&#8217;s assertion that some amount of the cruise story was invented(<a href="http://arts.nationalpost.com/2011/10/10/jonathan-franzen-dishes-on-david-foster-wallace/" rel="nofollow">http://arts.nationalpost.com/2011/10/10/jonathan-franzen-dishes-on-david-foster-wallace/</a>) change your view of the piece?  It is still wonderfully written, and probably an accurate summation of his experience, but what if it was not all true?</p>
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		<title>By: Paul Sas</title>
		<link>http://www.niemanstoryboard.org/2011/10/18/whys-this-so-good-no-16-david-foster-wallace-megan-garber-shipping-out/comment-page-1/#comment-12145</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Sas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Oct 2011 15:47:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.niemanstoryboard.org/?p=12235#comment-12145</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Since this is a journalism blog, it&#039;s worth noting that quite recently, DFW&#039;s friend has indicated that there was a certain license of fictionalization that Wallace took with his non-fiction pieces: http://www.theawl.com/2011/10/a-supposedly-true-thing-jonathan-franzen-said-about-david-foster-wallace]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Since this is a journalism blog, it&#8217;s worth noting that quite recently, DFW&#8217;s friend has indicated that there was a certain license of fictionalization that Wallace took with his non-fiction pieces: <a href="http://www.theawl.com/2011/10/a-supposedly-true-thing-jonathan-franzen-said-about-david-foster-wallace" rel="nofollow">http://www.theawl.com/2011/10/a-supposedly-true-thing-jonathan-franzen-said-about-david-foster-wallace</a></p>
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		<title>By: Dan</title>
		<link>http://www.niemanstoryboard.org/2011/10/18/whys-this-so-good-no-16-david-foster-wallace-megan-garber-shipping-out/comment-page-1/#comment-12144</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Oct 2011 15:27:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.niemanstoryboard.org/?p=12235#comment-12144</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[One of my favorite DFW pieces. Great post.

(And bonus points for using terms related to a ship&#039;s movement on the water as sub-heads within the piece. You devil you.)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One of my favorite DFW pieces. Great post.</p>
<p>(And bonus points for using terms related to a ship&#8217;s movement on the water as sub-heads within the piece. You devil you.)</p>
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